Discussion:
Banned from the forum after 9 years after reporting a bug via email
(too old to reply)
Wayne Diamond
2009-09-01 01:13:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well guys ... it seems this may be the end of the road for me and PB ...

Powerbasic have decided after 9 years of my contributions that because I
dont post at the forum with my real name to suspend my account. Yes, even
though Bob has known about this since 2000, and this after I have posted
2100 contributions over the 9 years.

And now they're not even returning my emails, even though I've handed over
every bit of info they need to realise that yes I am Wayne (and have even
made a post while logged in to prove it). But that's still not good enough,
and now they're not even returning my emails.

According to Jeff Daniels (I know what you're thinking - WHO!?) at
Powerbasic he hasn't fully suspended my account, it's "just moderated" so he
can have a peek at every post to ensure that nobody learns about how he has
treated me, but that's as good as disabled because I can't even tell anybody
how I've been treated.

Well ... ALLOW ME TO SHOW YOU THEN.

CUSTOMER PRIVACY they have stated is not on their agenda, not even if you've
been with them for years - they want you to show your full name to the rest
of the world, and that's the ONLY thing they care about.

They won't even reply to my emails now.

Ironically this has only come about as a result of me emailing them some
code demonstrating a bug ... if I hadn't sent that email (or if I had've
simply posted it to the forum instead) I'd still be there, but because I
emailed them they've suspended me.

Like I said I've been posting on the PB forums since 2000 now, as Wayne
Diamond. For the last half decade or so just about all of my posts have been
source code. I've also purchased over $1000 worth of PB software along the
way, including PBDOS, PBCC2, PBCC3, PBDLL6, PBWIN7, PBWIN8, PBForms, and
PowerGEN, and with my posts are over 2000 puts me in the top 1% of
contributors, and have never made a single dollar out of any of my posts, so
I feel I have pulled my weight in regards to contributing to the PB
community and helping support and promote the PB compilers.

However, there is seemingly one thing that is more important to Powerbasic
than anything else -- that you register at their forum using your real full
name. They dont even care if you never buy any of their programs again (I'm
not getting the impression they want me to buy any more), they just wants
you to post with your full name.

Your lack of privacy is apparently worth more to them than your money or
continued customer relationship.

I know this for a FACT now because even though I have been posting at the
forums for 9 years and 2100+ posts later I am banned/censored/suspended
whatever you want to call it, simply after emailing a bug report to
***@powerbasic.com
I noticed also just recently that Mike Trader was banned for the same
reason, sparking a heated debate on the usenet powerbasic newsgroups.

First things first, as this is apparently the crux of why I am banned ...

Diamond isnt my real surname, its just pseudorandom - I don't use my real
name on ANY forums on the Internet because I - unlike Powerbasic - value my
family's privacy, and nobody on the Internet NEEDS to know my surname unless
it's during a secure financial transaction. (Does it matter if my name is
Diamond or Smith?)
Surely everybody here has heard of how myspace and facebook especially are
constantly attacked by dataminers because so many people there use their
real name.

Every time I've purchased a PB product I've used my real surname (as that's
a financial SECURE transaction over HTTPS), so both Powerbasic, and their
bank, and my bank, knows my real surname and have done since 2000 when I
first purchased PBCC2, PBDLL6, PBDOS and PowerGEN. So it's not like I'm
hiding my surname from Powerbasic.

When I registered at the forums in 2000 Bob emailed me about my name in
regards to being against their real names policy, but I argued that
customers have a right to privacy when it comes to having their names
published, and he didn't email me back, so I assumed he had turned a blind
eye to it - especially 9 years and 2100+ posts later. Afterall, he knows my
real surname, so there is no reason why I should have to make it available
to the rest of the world.

So how did this come about? ...

Well today I discovered a strange problem after calling an MMX opcode, it is
very peculiar ...

Here is the demo code i wrote, tested, and sent to Powerbasic:

'
#COMPILE EXE
FUNCTION PBMAIN() AS LONG
#REGISTER NONE
LOCAL sTxt1 AS STRING, sTxt2 AS STRING, dwLen AS DWORD
sTxt1 = "abcdefgh"
sTxt2 = "12345678"
dwLen = LEN(sTxt1)
STDOUT "Len1=" & STR$(dwLen) & ", txt=" & sTxt1
STDOUT "Len2=" & STR$(LEN(sTxt2)) & ", txt=" & sTxt2
! mov edi, sTxt1
! movq mm7, [edi]
dwLen = LEN(sTxt1)
STDOUT "Len1=" & STR$(dwLen) & ", txt=" & sTxt1
STDOUT "Len2=" & STR$(LEN(sTxt2)) & ", txt=" & sTxt2
END FUNCTION
'

The resulting output from that is:
Len1= 8, txt=abcdefgh
Len2= 8, txt=12345678
Len1= 0, txt=abcdefgh '<-- WRONG
Len2= 92.2337203685478, txt=12345678 '<-- WRONG

... as you can see, the Len1 and Len2 values are correct initially, but
after the call to the MOVQ instruction the second part is totally wrong.
However, if you use HEX$ instead of STR$ they display ok, so it's a funny
one. I don't really know what's going on with this gremlin at the moment -
it may not be a PB fault, but I still feel appalled at how ive been treated
just for raising the issue privately to them.

I opted to email PB about it rather than posting it on the forums as I felt
it's just more courteous to inform software vendors via private means in
regards to possible bugs, as I stated in my first email to them: "Thought I
should check with you guys before asking anyone on the forum. Thanks guys,
Wayne Diamond"

But rather than a "thanks for the report and code, we'll analyse it and get
back to you later" email I was stunned to receive an ID check email ...
Thanks for writing! We'll need more information to get started
with your support issue. Would you please complete the
following and send it back as soon as possible? Thanks!
last name
first name
postal code
product
serial number
My initial reaction was "HUH!?!? IM JUST REPORTING A BUG!!!!!"

The email was from a "Jeff Daniels", quite a generic name so rather than
googling i checked with POFFS but only found 10 results (not as big on
contributing to the PB community as I was it seems).
He also posted several times using the account of "Steve Rossell".
Interesting.
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showpost.php?p=103426&postcount=4
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showpost.php?p=103976&postcount=2
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showpost.php?p=128181&postcount=2
etc

Anyway since then I have given them my first name, my last name (well, the
first 2 letters and the last letter, but its not as if I can GUESS all
three) and they know what my surname is, my two postal codes, all PB
products and all serial numbers + auth codes, and even more ...

ie. I HAVE GIVEN THEM EVERYTHING they asked for.

Yet they have still suspended my 9 year old account.

Here are some of their email comments ...
Also the forum rules state that you must use your
real first and last names. If this is you, you will need
to rename your forum account or it will be disabled.
-
Unfortunately we will not be able to provide you with
the results of our investigation, until we can validate
that you are a lawful PowerBASIC owner.
IF I HAD NEVER REPORTED THIS BUG I WOULDNT BE SUSPENDED.

Conclusion: It is more important for Powerbasic to show my full name to the
world than to have me as a customer and contributor, nor do they give a crap
about bugs.

PB Support emailed me back ...
Hi Wayne,
It is so nice to hear from you again.
So genuine isn't it?

But in other words, it was confirmation that they do know that yes I am ME,
Wayne.
Yet one paragraph later ...
Unfortunately we will not be able to provide you
with the results of our investigation, until we can
validate that you are a lawful PowerBASIC owner.
And here's a beauty, proving that Jeff Daniels hasn't seen a single one of
You signed your first email to support with "Wayne Diamond".
We have no Wayne Diamond in our customer database, so I was
merely trying to get your last name, which you so far have
refused to provide.
Refused to provide? No, i gave him the first 2 and last initials - how am I
supposed to magically GUESS that unless I knew?

So 9 years and $1000+ of PB purchases later Powerbasic have decided I'm now
some sort of criminal pirate.

YET they still leave all my source code contributions available,
interesting. Surely if I'm that bad they'd delete my posts???

It's also now clear that anybody can simply email ***@powerbasic.com
claiming to be anybody from the forums, and as it's apparently PB's policy
to check up the ID of every person emailing them they'll disable that
account if you don't then provide details.

THERE ARE JUST SO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS IN SO MANY WAYS. Why couldnt
they simply just email me back "Thanks for the report, we'll check it out
and get back to you" like any company that values its customers would???

No wonder the PB community is so small and long-time regulars like Borje,
Semen, Steve, Vladimir etc are disappearing ... :-/

Regards,
Wayne Diamond
Bob Zale
2009-09-03 09:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wayne Diamond
Well guys ... it seems this may be the end of the road for me and PB ...
Powerbasic have decided after 9 years of my contributions that because I
dont post at the forum with my real name to suspend my account. Yes, even
though Bob has known about this since 2000, and this after I have posted
2100 contributions over the 9 years.
And now they're not even returning my emails, even though I've handed over
every bit of info they need to realise that yes I am Wayne (and have even
made a post while logged in to prove it). But that's still not good enough,
and now they're not even returning my emails.
According to Jeff Daniels (I know what you're thinking - WHO!?) at
Powerbasic he hasn't fully suspended my account, it's "just moderated" so he
can have a peek at every post to ensure that nobody learns about how he has
treated me, but that's as good as disabled because I can't even tell anybody
how I've been treated.
Well ... ALLOW ME TO SHOW YOU THEN.
CUSTOMER PRIVACY they have stated is not on their agenda, not even if you've
been with them for years - they want you to show your full name to the rest
of the world, and that's the ONLY thing they care about.
They won't even reply to my emails now.
Ironically this has only come about as a result of me emailing them some
code demonstrating a bug ... if I hadn't sent that email (or if I had've
simply posted it to the forum instead) I'd still be there, but because I
emailed them they've suspended me.
Like I said I've been posting on the PB forums since 2000 now, as Wayne
Diamond. For the last half decade or so just about all of my posts have been
source code. I've also purchased over $1000 worth of PB software along the
way, including PBDOS, PBCC2, PBCC3, PBDLL6, PBWIN7, PBWIN8, PBForms, and
PowerGEN, and with my posts are over 2000 puts me in the top 1% of
contributors, and have never made a single dollar out of any of my posts, so
I feel I have pulled my weight in regards to contributing to the PB
community and helping support and promote the PB compilers.
However, there is seemingly one thing that is more important to Powerbasic
than anything else -- that you register at their forum using your real full
name. They dont even care if you never buy any of their programs again (I'm
not getting the impression they want me to buy any more), they just wants
you to post with your full name.
Your lack of privacy is apparently worth more to them than your money or
continued customer relationship.
I know this for a FACT now because even though I have been posting at the
forums for 9 years and 2100+ posts later I am banned/censored/suspended
whatever you want to call it, simply after emailing a bug report to
I noticed also just recently that Mike Trader was banned for the same
reason, sparking a heated debate on the usenet powerbasic newsgroups.
First things first, as this is apparently the crux of why I am banned ...
Diamond isnt my real surname, its just pseudorandom - I don't use my real
name on ANY forums on the Internet because I - unlike Powerbasic - value my
family's privacy, and nobody on the Internet NEEDS to know my surname unless
it's during a secure financial transaction. (Does it matter if my name is
Diamond or Smith?)
Surely everybody here has heard of how myspace and facebook especially are
constantly attacked by dataminers because so many people there use their
real name.
Every time I've purchased a PB product I've used my real surname (as that's
a financial SECURE transaction over HTTPS), so both Powerbasic, and their
bank, and my bank, knows my real surname and have done since 2000 when I
first purchased PBCC2, PBDLL6, PBDOS and PowerGEN. So it's not like I'm
hiding my surname from Powerbasic.
When I registered at the forums in 2000 Bob emailed me about my name in
regards to being against their real names policy, but I argued that
customers have a right to privacy when it comes to having their names
published, and he didn't email me back, so I assumed he had turned a blind
eye to it - especially 9 years and 2100+ posts later. Afterall, he knows my
real surname, so there is no reason why I should have to make it available
to the rest of the world.
So how did this come about? ...
Well today I discovered a strange problem after calling an MMX opcode, it is
very peculiar ...
'
#COMPILE EXE
FUNCTION PBMAIN() AS LONG
#REGISTER NONE
LOCAL sTxt1 AS STRING, sTxt2 AS STRING, dwLen AS DWORD
sTxt1 = "abcdefgh"
sTxt2 = "12345678"
dwLen = LEN(sTxt1)
STDOUT "Len1=" & STR$(dwLen) & ", txt=" & sTxt1
STDOUT "Len2=" & STR$(LEN(sTxt2)) & ", txt=" & sTxt2
! mov edi, sTxt1
! movq mm7, [edi]
dwLen = LEN(sTxt1)
STDOUT "Len1=" & STR$(dwLen) & ", txt=" & sTxt1
STDOUT "Len2=" & STR$(LEN(sTxt2)) & ", txt=" & sTxt2
END FUNCTION
'
Len1= 8, txt=abcdefgh
Len2= 8, txt=12345678
Len1= 0, txt=abcdefgh   '<-- WRONG
Len2= 92.2337203685478, txt=12345678  '<-- WRONG
... as you can see, the Len1 and Len2 values are correct initially, but
after the call to the MOVQ instruction the second part is totally wrong.
However, if you use HEX$ instead of STR$ they display ok, so it's a funny
one. I don't really know what's going on with this gremlin at the moment -
it may not be a PB fault, but I still feel appalled at how ive been treated
just for raising the issue privately to them.
I opted to email PB about it rather than posting it on the forums as I felt
it's just more courteous to inform software vendors via private means in
regards to possible bugs, as I stated in my first email to them: "Thought I
should check with you guys before asking anyone on the forum. Thanks guys,
Wayne Diamond"
But rather than a "thanks for the report and code, we'll analyse it and get
back to you later" email I was stunned to receive an ID check email ...
Thanks for writing! We'll need more information to get started
with your support issue. Would you please complete the
following and send it back as soon as possible? Thanks!
last name
first name
postal code
Post by Wayne Diamond
product
serial number
My initial reaction was "HUH!?!? IM JUST REPORTING A BUG!!!!!"
The email was from a "Jeff Daniels", quite a generic name so rather than
googling i checked with POFFS but only found 10 results (not as big on
contributing to the PB community as I was it seems).
He also posted several times using the account of "Steve Rossell".
Interesting.http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showpost.php?p=103426&post...http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showpost.php?p=103976&post...http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showpost.php?p=128181&post...
etc
Anyway since then I have given them my first name, my last name (well, the
first 2 letters and the last letter, but its not as if I can GUESS all
three) and they know what my surname is, my two postal codes, all PB
products and all serial numbers + auth codes, and even more ...
ie. I HAVE GIVEN THEM EVERYTHING they asked for.
Yet they have still suspended my 9 year old account.
Here are some of their email comments ...
Also the forum rules state that you must use your
real first and last names. If this is you, you will need
to rename your forum account or it will be disabled.
-
Unfortunately we will not be able to provide you with
the results of our investigation, until we can validate
that you are a lawful PowerBASIC owner.
IF I HAD NEVER REPORTED THIS BUG I WOULDNT BE SUSPENDED.
Conclusion: It is more important for Powerbasic to show my full name to the
world than to have me as a customer and contributor, nor do they give a crap
about bugs.
PB Support emailed me back ...> > Hi Wayne,
It is so nice to hear from you again.
So genuine isn't it?
But in other words, it was confirmation that they do know that yes I am ME,
Wayne.
Yet one paragraph later ...
Unfortunately we will not be able to provide you
with the results of our investigation, until we can
validate that you are a lawful PowerBASIC owner.
And here's a beauty, proving that Jeff Daniels hasn't seen a single one of
my forum posts over the last 9 years:> > You signed your first email to support with "Wayne Diamond".
We have no Wayne Diamond in our customer database, so I was
merely trying to get your last name, which you so far have
refused to provide.
Refused to provide? No, i gave him the first 2 and last initials - how am I
supposed to magically GUESS that unless I knew?
So 9 years and $1000+ of PB purchases later Powerbasic have decided I'm now
some sort of criminal pirate.
YET they still leave all my source code contributions available,
interesting. Surely if I'm that bad they'd delete my posts???
claiming to be anybody from the forums, and as it's apparently PB's policy
to check up the ID of every person emailing them they'll disable that
account if you don't then provide details.
THERE ARE JUST SO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS IN SO MANY WAYS. Why couldnt
they simply just email me back "Thanks for the report, we'll check it out
and get back to you" like any company that values its customers would???
No wonder the PB community is so small and long-time regulars like Borje,
Semen, Steve, Vladimir etc are disappearing ... :-/
Regards,
Wayne Diamond
Hello Mr. "X",

It's so nice to hear from you again. {smile} In one day, our staff
received 51 emails from you. Even though you requested free technical
support, you refused to provide your real name in any one of those
emails. Once, you even provided 2 or 3 letters of your surname, but
told our engineer that it was his problem to determine the remaining
letters. That makes our job very difficult. And expensive. Our
employees responded to at least 25 of those emails, which takes time
and money, but each response was polite and businesslike. Yes, they
finally figured out your real identity, but the process was fairly
ridiculous.

This whole long post really boils down to 2 simple issues:

1- When you ask for free tech support, you need to identify yourself.
For very good reason, this policy won't change.

2- When you registered for the PowerBASIC Forums, you promised to
follow the rules. Rule #1 is "Post only under your real, full name".
When our support engineer learned that the name "Wayne Diamond" was a
false identity, he asked you to follow the rules, just like all the
thousands of other members. It really doesn't matter that you "got
away with it for years". To post on the PowerBASIC Forums, you must
use your real, full name unless or until we change the rule. I must
warn that I don't expect a modification any time soon.

We'll be very happy to discuss suggestions about any PowerBASIC policy
with you, or any other of our friends and customers. We've
implemented hundreds, maybe thousands, of great suggestions already.
But stomping your feet here isn't likely to foster a change you
desire.

Best regards,

Bob Zale
PowerBASIC Inc.
Dave -Turner
2009-09-03 12:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Here's a few facts you chose not to mention:

- YOU (Bob Zale) have known that I was posting under an alias since 2000
when I first registered and YOU personally emailed me saying "you need to
use your real name". I emailed you back explaining that I had privacy
concerns, and that as long as you knew my real name nobody else on the forum
had any need or right to.

- Yet you didn't ban me, and for the next ___NINE AND A HALF YEARS___ I then
made over 2100+ posts to the forum, and several emails to ***@. This
after investing over $1000 in software purchases from you.

- It was only when I emailed a bug report to support@ and ended up with
'Jeff Daniels' responding to my case that I ended up with my account
suspended. Granted he obviously had no idea of our communications in 2000,
and being so new didn't even know there was a Wayne Diamond, so I guess he
was just following your strict anti-customer-privacy policy.

So what you have PROVEN BY DEMONSTRATION (there's no argument because you've
done it) is that even if somebody has been supporting Powerbasic for over 9
years with over 2100+ contributions - mostly all source code, you DO NOT
CARE what they have contributed to the Powerbasic community.

What you are saying is that even if somebody's made a decades worth of
contributions you've suddenly decided that it is MORE IMPORTANT that I am
registered at the PB Forums with my real name. Even though nobody else cares
whether im Tom, Dick or Harry (nor should they, seeing as they have no way
to verify that).

And even though YOU know my real name, that's still not enough for you -- it
apparently matters _SO MUCH_ for you/Powerbasic to show my real name to the
world, going against all my privacy concerns for my family.

THAT is THE SINGLE MOST DISGRACEFUL disregard of a customers privacy
concerns I have ever heard, so I will NEVER do business with Powerbasic
again, and YES I feel betrayed after spending so much money and so many
years of my time investing in Powerbasic, but I hope others can learn from
this before they make the same mistake of investing so much money in such a
small company and hoping to be treated as a customer with respect.

Anybody else wonder why the other long-termers like Borje Hagsten, Lance
Edmonds, Semon Matusovski, Steve Hutchesson, etc etc - some of Powerbasics
most prolific contributers - keep disappearing ???
Bob Zale
2009-09-03 14:12:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
You must have a false identity for every day of the week? Yesterday,
it was Wayne Diamond, today it's Dave Turner? Will it be George W.
Bush tomorrow? How in the world can you remember which false identity
you're hiding behind on which day? {smile}

I guess you must have a new philosophy every day of the week, too?
Just yesterday, you posted this on Jose Roca's forum:

"I actually do like how the PB Forum asks new users to use their real
names, because with real-named people rather than whacky aliases it
does give the general feel of the forum a more professional one, and
that's a good setting for a software development forum..."

So, which Wayne are we talking to today? The "good" Wayne? The "evil
twin" Wayne? Or some other Wayne? {smile}

Incidentally, you are not being forced to post to the PowerBASIC
Forums against your will. All posts are at the choice of the member.
When you registered, you promised to abide by the rules and
guidelines. Just because you "got away with deception" for a time
does not rescind your promise. Please be a man of your word, and re-
register under your real name? As a alternative, we could just update
your current account to your real name. Which would you prefer,
Wayne?

Best regards,

Bob Zale
PowerBASIC Inc.
MikeTrader
2009-09-07 10:20:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Wayne, I have followed your work closely and use a lot of your code
that you so very kindly contributed. You have always been polite and
worked hard on tough problems earning my admiration. I use your ideas
in a lot of my projects, esp the security stuff. I will be very sad to
see you go.

It seems Mr Zale is amusing himself with these tirades on his user
base at the moment, to what end we can only wonder. I have been banned
for almost 2 years now after being a registered member for 9 years
too. There are many communities on the web that can provide a great
substitute for the PB forum (contact me if you would like some
suggestions)
Wishing you the very best
Bob Zale
2009-09-08 18:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

I would like to point out that PowerBASIC, Inc. takes all bug reports
seriously, even from non-registered users. The problem was not with
Wayne reporting a bug, but with the fact that he refused to provide
his real name when writing to support. After reviewing the bug that
Wayne reported, the problem is not with the compiler, but with the
customer's assembler code. When you execute an MMX or SIMD instruction
(those that use MMX data), the FPU is placed in MMX state. You may
then execute additional MMX or CPU opcodes. When you wish to exit MMX
state and execute standard FPU opcodes, you must first execute an EMMS
opcode. Failure to do so will result in floating-point exceptions or
incorrect results.

Sincerely,
Steve Rossell
PowerBASIC Staff
MikeTrader
2009-09-13 02:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The problem is not that there might be a bug in powerbasic's compiler,
its that Mr Zale is so sensitive to any suggestion of that possability
he over reacts and ban's well meaning users.

I don't think there is any doubt that a small bug can be found and
fixed, that s after all your business, but this relentless paranoia
regarding user's personal information is completely counterproductive.

Since Mr Zale had me banned from Jose Rocas forum within days of
banning me from the powerbasic forum (unless of course it's a giant
coincidence that is yet another figment of my imagination ) I will
respond to the current thread
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=70465e4677ead6b6c795beb262ca598f&topic=3240.0
here:

- Patrice Terrier
By the way we all know that some people have a thinner skin than other, and we also regret that some of the most valuable >PB contributors have disapeared, this could also happen to me sooner or later
Almost certainly. Read the sad story of Frank Cox to verify that:

"I originally purchased the Powerbasic compiler when it was called
Turbo Basic
1.0 around 1987 when it was first released. I bought my first copy of
Turbo
Basic from our local Radio Shack store and sent in the registration
card for
it. From then up until about 1995, every time a new version of Turbo
Basic (and
now Powerbasic) was released, I got a notice in the mail offering me
an update
to the new version at a reduced price. I have purchased every upgrade
of the
DOS version of the Powerbasic compiler from the company since the
initial 1.0
release of Turbo Basic. Therefore, I suspect that I am one of the
oldest,
longest-term customers that Powerbasic has (or had).

Powerbasic for the Linux operating system has been promised ever since
March
25,1999, when an employee of Powerbasic named Dave Navarro posted a
message in
the Powerbasic forum stating that Powerbasic for Linux would be
released "some
time this year".

For several years, the Powerbasic website had a section which stated
"Linux is
coming soon".

(I have attached screenshots to this message showing these
statements.)

On January 29, 2008, someone on the Powerbasic forum asked when
Powerbasic for
Linux would be released. I replied to his question by stating
something to the
effect that "Powerbasic for Linux has been 'coming real soon now' for
over ten
years, but unfortunately it hasn't ever been released." I also said
how
disappointed I was that it hadn't actually appeared because I was
planning to
be the first customer buying it when it did show up.

Bob Zale immediately challenged me on the forum asking me to prove
that
Powerbasic for Linux had been promised for over ten years. When I
posted the
proof that he asked for, he called me a liar, deleted the proof that I
had
posted, and banned me from the forum. In fact, he banned my IP
address from his
website completely, so I couldn't even read anything on that website
from my
usual Internet account. Most unfortunately, he deleted enough of the
thread on
the forum that he left me looking like I had lied, which was both
incorrect and
unfair as he was maligning my reputation.

I thought this was unreasonable treatment (and still do), so I took
the
discussion to a forum where Bob Zale can't control, edit or delete
anything
that other people post, that being the Usenet
comp.lang.basic.powerbasic
newsgroup. While not nearly as active as the Powerbasic web forum,
some people
who are interested in Powerbasic do follow that newsgroup.

When I posted a description of my treatment and the current situation,
someone
who signed himself "Tim Robbins/Powerbasic Inc." posted this:


QUOTE:
You really should tell the truth, not to mention the "whole truth".

1- You were not "banned" from the PowerBASIC Forums.

2- No action was taken because of a "response" we didn't like.

3- You were temporarily blocked from posting because you attempted to
"flood" our forums with nasty messages at a very high rate. You then
began to flood our emails, too. When folks get out of control, we
have to deal with it.
END OF QUOTE


This was a complete fabrication on his part.

1. I was banned from the Powerbasic forums, in fact I was banned from
the
entire website.
2. I was banned because I dared to post proof of the fact that
Powerbasic for
Linux was promised since 1998.
3. The accusation of "flooding" is wholly invented by Powerbasic. It
didn't
happen.


You won't be able to read the thread on the Powerbasic forum that got
me banned
because Bob Zale deleted it. You can read the exchange that we had on
the
Usenet newsgroup, though. The whole thing is archived and available
here:

http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/448bfaa8fcb30d00/4e05a8b5dab7c36d
or
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/2008-02/msg00009.html

In conclusion, I am a long-term customer of Powerbasic, since before
it was
Powerbasic Inc. (It was originally a product of Borland
International, then
it was sold by Spectra Publishing, then it was sold by Powerbasic
Inc., and I
have made regular purchases from all of these companies over the
years.)

I was banned from the Powerbasic web forum for making a statement that
Bob Zale
didn't like, and then proving it when he asked me to do so.

The Powerbasic for DOS compiler that I have purchased and used is a
very nice
product. Bob Zale and Powerbasic Inc, on the other hand, treat their
customers
capriciously and unreasonably.

Though I still use the Powerbasic for DOS compiler that I bought from
them years ago, after they treated me the way that they did last year,
I have
absolutely no interest or intention of dealing with them or making any
further
purchases from them in the future. I strongly recommend that anyone
who plans
to build any kind of a business around computer programming should
stay far
away from Powerbasic Inc. They have demonstrated that they will not
hesitate
to ban you for any reason or none at all. A compiler is a product
where
interaction with other people who use it is a very important part of
the product
itself; it becomes much less useful if you can't discuss problems,
issues and
techniques with other programmers who use the same compiler that you
do.

Bob Zale and Powerbasic Inc are not a company or individual that I
care to deal
with. In my opinion, Powerbasic Inc is not operated in an ethical
manner.

Frank Cox"
(Address and phone number withheld to protect his privacy)



- Wayne Diamond
After I registered at the PB forums in 2000 Bob emailed me and we basically had the same debate we're having now for a day >or two, but in the end it seemed he just turned a blind eye to it, which is how I thought it has been for these last 9 years >so I thought everything was fine.
I am absolutely dumbfounded that Powerbasic cannot, in 2009, understand a customers request for privacy, and now their new >jnr tech support kids are googling for info about me.
Why do you think people are opting for privacy when they register domains these days???
If people choose to post with their full name then that's fine, but FORCING people to do so (even when it cannot be enforced >- it's taken 9 years for PB to enforce this) just goes against common sense as much as it takes away privacy.
Exactly. How can Mr Zale make a legitimatly insist that peple register
with their FULL REAL name when he ALLOWS even one person to use a
nick? I was also granted permission to use my nick by him, on the
phone, in person in 2005. It is farcical to use this as the
cornerstone of powerbasic's user policy and now ban these SAME USERS
with this "policy"


- Edwin Knoppert
An alias is *very* acceptable, as long the forum admin knows who you are.
On my board i add the user but they can change the name, i still know who it is.
Precisly
I don't like nicknames, it's often very childies, go to the purebasic forum to see an example of that.
Yes, and they come off as being childish and perhaps not take as
seriously, but that is their right and privildge.


- Wayne Diamond
And if the forum's Heads know who you are then what different does it make? As long as they know nobody else in the world >needs to.
ps. I have privately msg'd Jose but he's a genuinely good guy so I'm sure he won't treat me like a criminal.
Un-fortunatly, as I am sure you will find out, Jose's boss is Mr Zale.
You WILL be banned as I was. (more later)


- Bob Houle
I think Wayne is 110% correct..
------------
Register as: Real Name
What name would you like the public to know you as? : Nice Alias
------------
What's the harm? I'll never have any 'official' dealings with Wayne, and if I did he would clarify this, if needed.
I believe the forum management has the right to know a persons real name, but should understand that everyone has the right >to display a name that he/she finds suitable.
Exactly!



- Patrice Terrier
Now, if Wayne, or whatever he/she/it is, has a very special reason to use a pseudo, he/she/it can always reach José privatly >and exposed his/her/its problem. But so far, the official policy of this forum is YOU MUST USE YOUR REAL NAME to post or >download files from this forum.
I have a VERY special reason... my privacy, not to mention the very
obvious detrimental affect on my INCOME from clients searching my name
and getting access to my work and compilable code!


- Wayne Diamond
Patrice ... question - how could you or Jose or anybody else here tell if I was using my real name or not?
GREAT QUESTION!
The answer is you can't, as I haven't done any secure financial transactions with you (and even then I might've used a >company card or gift card etc). So for starters it's a mostly-unenforceable protocol.
I suggested a solution to this in 2007
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1273.0
Charging $1 to register would solve this problem. Who would not pay $1
to download all the material on Jose's site?
This was of course ignored. Why? Because the real reason behind
requiring FULL REAL names to register has nothing whatever to do with
your FULL REAL name. (More later)



- Chris Boss
Forums which use an alias tend to degrade in time.
That is your opinion. I belong to many forums where this is not the
case. Most forums on the internet do not require your FULL REAL name.
A nick is defined by what you post in the same way that your FULL REAL
NAME is. There is no difference. Your personality in REAL life cuts no
ice in an internet forum as we have all found out. Your are judged by
your posts.
Since people feel they are protected behind their alias (nobody knows who >they are), they can say "anything they want".
Yes.... and that is the whole point. It's called free speach, that was
the first amendment to the constution for a very good reason. The
problem is Mr Zale is seeking to limit our first amendment rights by
using the underhanded methods of thread deletion and banning while
screaming about his "private property" as loud as he can.
It also draws unscrupulous characters in time who always stay behind an alias.
The use of real names, plus a well moderated forum protects the quality of the forum in the long run.
Since many people register to use the powerbasic forums without buying
anything, there is no way to tell if these people have made up a FULL
REAL name. That negates this whole argument (aside from the fact that
Mr Zale actually ALLOWS people to use nick's as Wayne and I testify to
here)
Another area of concern is protection from illegal users of ones software.
Most companies want to limit the illegal use of their software. While it is not possible to prevent all such use, one can >limit such use my "knowing" all the members on your support forums. If alias' were use this would be impossible. Reals name, >while not a perfect solution, does tend to keep away such individuals.
Obtaining pirated PB products is a simple matter unfortunatly. I
battle software pirates as much as anyone that has released a
shareware product. Piracy is wrong. I would work to support any
software vendor, including powerbasic from having their products
priated. However, it is a fact of life that we all have to live with.

If the intention is to curtail support to these individuals then this
is NOT the way to do it. As I suggested in 2007, this can easily be
done by requiring users to register with a credit card paying a
nominal fee of $1. Who can argue that support of any kind isn't worth
$1? Then the vendor knows who the users are and can determine if they
have bought product. Simple. This immediatly negates the requirement
for a FULL REAL name, yet it is not implemented. Why?
Now I do understand once in a while the need for privacy in a few instances.
Well I would argue that everyone is entitled to their privacy, but
lets even leave that aside. The problem is, who is the arbitor of this
"once ina while"? You, Mr Zale? some $8/hr powerbasic employee? As
soon as you put that decision in someone else's hands, you have
defeated everyone's right to privacy.
In such rare cases where the need for an alias is an absolute necessity, the one who requires it must be prepared to pay the >price for this, not PowerBasic.
What on earth does that mean? People who value their privacy (and are
not so reckless as to post their FULL REAL name) are subject to being
harrassed by tinpot internet bussinesses? Come on, that doesn't even
pass the sniff test...
Now some forum moderators "may" allow the use of an alias in a rare instance, but if they have the policy of real names it >isn't surprising they would ban someone who used an alias (even though they felt they must) if they weren't told about it >ahead of time and asked if they could do so.
Well the problem with this logic is that Mr Zale can't have it both
ways. A policy is a policy. If you state it as such, you can't
undermine it by letting people use nicks. It is utterly ludicrous to
allow someone to use an alias for NINE YEARS and then cite this as the
reason for banning him. It is perfectly obvious to anyone, that Mr
Zale is just having a little hissy fit and "stopming his feet" (to
borrow his favorite expression).
If you request before registering from the moderator and explain "why" an alias is necessary, this may be acceptable.
Well this is exactly what I did with Jose Roca's forum. Then the
policy changed (a long while after I had joined) and contributed. Jose
knew who I was and allowed me to post, at least until Mr Zale banned
me and sent my PERSONAL INFORMATION gained at time of sale to him, a
totally illegal act, violating every privacy statute not to mention
powerbasic's own privacy policy.
If you registered with an alias hoping you don't get caught or assuming the moderator does know who you are (which they may >or may not) and then they finally catch up with you, it is only reasonable they ban someone from the forum.
That is not the case for me or Wayne.
Privacy in a "public" forum doesn't seem to go hand in hand. If one particpates in a public forum, one should expect to lose >a degree of privacy.
If one wants absolute privacy, then one should not participate in a public forum.
This argument is flawed on its face since internet nicks obviously
provide identity privacy.
Now in the case of my own customers, those who require absolute privacy still have the option of emailing me with questions. >That is as private as it will get for support.
If they want the viewpoint of others, I may personally post their question on my forums, but in my name so they can read the >answers, yet not need to post.
You obviously genuinly care about your customers. What does it say
about powerbasic that they are not willing to do the same?
Many may not realize this, but many of the common forum software programs (UBB, Simple Machines, PHPBB) are the target of >spammer attacks by robot software which registers fake names for the purpose of spamming.
Yes, and yahoo and google and.... this is why we have CAPTCHA. Another
bogus argument.
wierd fake user names which are easy to spot.
If you are suggesting that wierd names can be offensive, I agree. It
is not unreasonable for a froum admin to REQUEST that someone find
something a little more personal or appropriate if needed, but people
should be allowed to use nicks if they wish.
My own forums have been attacked regularly so I have even more of a reason to enforce real names.
Yes but IN FACT you don't. The only way to verify if a name is real,
is by getting a payment with a credit card or like.


- Charles Pegge
But as long as the true name is known to the administrator then the member can be held to account for their good behaviour.
And if a member uses their alias consistently across the web, (as many famous authors adopt pseudonyms) then I think this is >legit.
Absolutly right.



- Theo Gottwald
You can see my picture and on my web-site there is real adress.
It is perfectly obvious that you have no net worth. If you did you
would be a little more concerned about your personal privacy. One day,
perhaps after you have had your identity stolen, or got one too many
spam emails and deleted an important sales lead by mistake, or been
interupted at a deal signing by some telemarketer, you will realize
the importance of this fundamental issue.
So I hope he'll re-think it and come back with a name
PAY ATTENTION THEO. He has thought this through VERY CAREFULLY as have
I. We are not going to compromise our privacy to gratify Mr Zales ego.
It is not going to happen OK.

The sub text of this comment is that you wish Wayne to reamin a part
of the community and compromise his values. Some of us have integrity.
We don't roll over and play dead at the first sign of trouble and
certainly do not let bandits hijack our security to satisfy their
vanity. You would do well to "re-think" your position.


- Carlo Pagani
Let me add that I do not accept the "Identity theft" excuse for an alias in Waynes case because if someone as computer >literate as he is can get his identity stolen, then God help the rest of us.
Carlo, in the US, it is all too easy. I had my identy stolen when I
went to a Chevy dealer to test drive a Corvette! You have no idea how
much trouble that caused. I wasted six months and lost a very sweet
deal because of it.


- Frederick J. Harris
I know where you are coming from Theo. I think a man should stand by his name. In the not so distant past people with >pride & honor fought duels over any perceived or real disparagement of their name.
Woouldn't it be nice if those values persisted today. Unfortunatly the
reality of the world we live in is very different! Sneak theives will
steal from you without you even knowing. The first incling I had that
my identity had been stolen was when I got a telegram from a Credit
Card company informing me that I needed to make a payment on a $20k
balance.
As far as Wayne is concerned it strikes me as ridiculous to give up using a computer language just because ... he has been >banned from the PowerBASIC Forums.
It is ridiculous. But this is the reality of the situation both he, I,
and good people like Frank Cox (read above) find ourselves in.
Wayne ought to just sign up with his real name and be done with it, IMHO.
You are not listening. Privacy is not something we are willing to
compromise for Mr Zale, and rightly so. This is something you should
be adressing with powerbasic in the strongest possible terms. This is
a fundamental issue.


- Theo Gottwald
At the end the truth will reveal.
You've read it here.
I am a man after all. I won't run away if there is a chance for a fight.
So why arn't you fighting? You role over like a lap dog when Zale
rattles your inbox. Try standing up for what's right for once.


- Laurence Jackson
My impulse is to always use my real name.
and that's your right and priviledge
However, I can't really see the problem in Wayne's case. He has consistently used the same name through the years on the PB >forum and now this one.
Exactly
privacy is a perfectly valid reason if that's important to you.
Exactly
But does it really matter if it's your REAL name as long as it's a consistent name? (like the stage name of an actor).
No, it doesn't
I have also been "banned" from the PowerBasic forums. But PB has been my Windows programming language of choice for a few >years now and I'm not going to stop using it just because of a stupid little thing like that! I don't really hang around the >PB forums anymore, and that's sad - I used to feel part of a community there and it was the most important thing in keeping >me going when I was just starting and on the steep part of the learning curve. Ironically, it was that feeling "part of a >community" that was at root of getting me banned. I cared enough to make a suggestion for improvement by email that was >taken the wrong way. I was stung by the viciousness of the reply and one thing led to another... It does indeed seem to be a >very dangerous thing to email PowerBasic Inc.!
But I'm still using PB. My opinion of it and of Bob Zale as a programmer hasn't changed. It's still a great product that is >worth treating its creator with kid gloves for.
Well that appears to be the concensus of every PB developer, and this
is precisly what enables Mr Zale to do what he does and get away with
it. He is counting on you to make that evaluation and if you are a
seasoned developer, then you can probably function without the forums.

The only remaiing problem then, is the rising body count. At what
point do you say enough? We have lost some of the greatest most
brilliant developers in the world to Mr Zale's ego. I remember reading
one of Semen's posts for a week trying to understand how brilliant it
was. I have NEVER done that with any of Mr Zale's posts. Every time I
read his responses I want to go take a shower.

At what point is the destruction to the community and expulsion of
members going to be too much for even the party faithful to tolerate?
By the time Patrice has been banned and Jose has had a stomach full,
whats left won't be worth being a part of anyway. It is astounding how
much everyone is willing to tolerate.


- Bob Zale
You are not banned from the PowerBASIC Forums. You have never been banned from the PowerBASIC Forums.
That's what you told the BBB and Florida Dept of Consumer Service
about my status. That's a factual inaccuracy, or to use your turn of
phrase: "you're a liar!"
Why do you even bother to say these things? You even contradict
yourself in your replies. It's pathetic to watch you make these
worthless statements of innocence while you rush around behind the
scenes wrecking mayhem and havoc at every turn.
Would'nt it be eaiser to take an anger management class or 5000, and
just play nice?

- Laurence Jackson
I found that I had gone from "locked out" to "moderated" (my message appeared after an hour or two). But, like a guest, I'm >still prohibited from downloading any attachments.
A great example of how public pressure actually works!


- Bob Zale
Actually, I don't think that's correct, either. You probably just forgot, but a couple of months ago, you created a second >forum account, using a false identity.
Ah, so despite your claim that:
"The vast majority highly approve of the policy"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/6e4ac9f0614d38bf#
It seems there is yet another exampe of someone that does not want to
use their FULL REAL name as demanded.
Perhaps the vast majority actually value their privacy, as argued
here?


- Bob Zale
Had you simply logged in under your real name
Yes it only takes a second for you to ruin a lifetime of carefull
identity protection. No thanks

In an email after banning me in Feb 2008 you said:
"Thank for getting back to me. We have thousands of forum members and
all of them follow the rules, except you. It would not be fair to
allow you to break the rules, which everyone else follows. I have
discussed this with Mr. Zale and he concurrs. Please let me know which
of the two choices, you prefer.
1) change you handle to you real name
2) we will change your your handle for
you.
You have until 4pm Eastern Standard Time to change your handle or we
will do it for you."

In the light of what we now know about Wayne, the statement "all of
them follow the rules" is obviously yet another bare faced lie. At
this time Mr Zale had clearly given him permission to use a nick.




- José Roca
Nothing sinister, I hope. Börje had health problems and I don't have any news from him since then, but I can confirm that >Lance, Steve, Semen and Vladimir are alive.
Yes, but NONE of them post on the PB forum any longer... why is that
do you think?
I noticed also just recently that Mike Trader was banned for the same reason, sparking a heated debate on the usenet >powerbasic newsgroups.
And before, he did the same in the FreeBasic and VBWire forums, and even in the Wikipedia!
And that is a surprise after being banned without any warning, and
given no reason whatsoever?
You have been around PB since about 2001 I think. Imgaine for a moment
that all that great work you did was instantly removed because you
offended Mr Zale? You are a brilliant developer and always polite and
helpful, but I think even you would be upset.

I have been in this community since 1999. Ten years. Mr Zale has
abruptly ended my ability to participate in the community forums for
reasons tht still remain unknown. He cites the "lies" in my posts
SINCE this event, as the reason, but even when challenged to identify
a single lie, fails to do so. This is just plain wrong and you know
it.

Add to that to childish refusal to sell more product, and you have a
textbook example of a support Nazi. People need to know about this,
and if I can affect change by bringing public awareness to this, I
will. Mr Zale needs to hear loud and clear that this behaviour will
not be tolerated by users. Each one of these scandals costs him
credibility and sales. If he persists, he is going to be putting
powerbasic up for sale again.

Your ability puts you in the top few developers in the world. Most of
us in the community are not. We rely heavily on the forums to learn
and exchange ideas.

My goal is to warn anyone new to development and looking for a
language, that there are some nasty minefields when you choose
powerbasic. Unless and until Mr Zale relents, this is going to cost
him dearly... and rightly so. I would NEVER have chosen powerbasic had
I known how totally un-professional he was.

You and I had a great relationship until Feb 2008 when I received this
email:
02/01/2008 10:10
Hi Mike,
I have been told that “Mike Trader” is a false identity for Michael
xxxxx, of xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx.

Please change the display name in your account settings if you want to
continue to post. No need to re-register (I don’t care if you use Mike
Trader for login), just change the “Name” setting.

Click “Profile” in the top menu, and then “Account Related Settings”
in the “Modify Profile” menu.

Regards,
José Roca

This email identified my FULL REAL name and other personal information
that could only have come from Mr Zale. If the timing itself wasn't
enough, this email was proof posative that you had been coerced into
banning me by Mr Zale.

Over the years I have sent you a lot of money and contributed popular
code to your forum
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1383.0

We worked through a complex Bluetooth problem together
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1373.0;wap2

and some QUAD issues with SQLite
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1473.0

Our relationship was destroyed in a single instant by Mr Zale, and you
let him do it. I submit that following Zale's policy, and banning me
on his say-so, despite all our interactions over years (in which you
knew full well my name was a nick) is WRONG, and despite your
brilliance, undermines your credibility (as testified by the sparse
postings on your site). People do not respect a brilliant "nice"
"good" guy that will not stand up and do the right thing. As my father
used to tell me, when you lie with dogs, you get fleas.
It doesn't make sense to have rules if you don't enforce them. I didn't do it fully in my first forum and it was a disaster.
I fully agree with Chris post. Many people using pirated copies of PowerBASIC come here looking for a heaven. If you allow >the use of nicknames and alias, you can't know if they are pirates or not.
As Wayne points out, you still don't know if Tom Smith is a real name.
As I posted in 2007
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1273.0
the solution is simple. Charge $1 to join and allow nicks. That solves
ALL the problems except one, the only real one, the one that counts
more than all the others...

As reported by a former employee:
"The real reason Mr Zale insists upon users registering with their
FULL REAL NAME is so that he can humiliate offenders BY NAME in
public"

The story goes as follows:
As a vendor, he must provide his FULL REAL name to have any
credibilty, and as a business owner. It irks him to no end that he has
to provide his name and users don't. It sends him over the edge when
they dare to disagree with him or even worse, criticize the product
that is his "life's work". In the beggining powerbasic had quite a few
bugs and inconsitencies and some users would criticize him. To get
revenge he realized that using someones real name wsa more effective
based on the truth that if you "throw enough mud, some sticks". It has
nothing whatever to do with software pirates, or forum bots or
anythink like that, its about vengence, pure and simple.

In fact the truth is, everyone uses nicks, even you Jose, or should I
say Pepe?
Loading Image...
Basic Guy
2009-09-13 02:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MikeTrader
On January 29, 2008, someone on the Powerbasic forum asked when
Powerbasic for Linux would be released. I replied to his
question by stating something to the effect that "Powerbasic
for Linux has been 'coming real soon now' for over ten
years, but unfortunately it hasn't ever been released."
Besides responding to your remark and eventually banning you, did anyone
at PB ever respond to the original question?
Post by MikeTrader
While not nearly as active as the Powerbasic web forum, some people
who are interested in Powerbasic do follow that newsgroup.
Is there ever any feedback into the PB-hosted forums about the
conversations that go on here in these newsgroups?

Does anyone ever post comments in the PB forums that anyone that wants
to have an uncensored and un-delete-able conversation or debate can do
so here in these newsgroups?
MikeTrader
2009-09-13 02:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Basic Guy
Besides responding to your remark and eventually banning you, did anyone
at PB ever respond to the original question?
It seems that powerbasic will never be available on any other platform
Post by Basic Guy
Post by MikeTrader
While not nearly as active as the Powerbasic web forum, some people
who are interested in Powerbasic do follow that newsgroup.
This is the only place where posts cannot be deleted by Zale
Post by Basic Guy
Is there ever any feedback into the PB-hosted forums about the
conversations that go on here in these newsgroups?
are you kidding? The lenghts to which Mr Zale has gone to delete
threads in Eros forum should be enough evidence of that.
Post by Basic Guy
Does anyone ever post comments in the PB forums that anyone that wants
to have an uncensored and un-delete-able conversation or debate can do
so here in these newsgroups?
As Mr Zale likes to point out when it's convenient, the PB forums are
his private property.
Tom Lake
2009-09-13 11:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Why do you keep at this? You're not going to resolve it here.
It's a personal matter between you and Zale (or whatever his name is)
This does nothing to help people who have problems using PB, which
is really the point of this newsgroup. I, for one, am tired of your
bickering.

Tom Lake (My real name)
MikeTrader
2009-09-13 19:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom Lake
Why do you keep at this? You're not going to resolve it here.
It's a personal matter between you and Zale (or whatever his name is)
This does nothing to help people who have problems using PB, which
is really the point of this newsgroup. I, for one, am tired of your
bickering.
Tom Lake (My real name)
Thank you for your feedback Tom. If you are tired of reading it, then
stop reading it. That's called exercising your right to choose.
Unfortunately powerbasic doesn't want others to enjoy this freedom so
they delete threads thus depriving those who are interested of the
material they need to make an INFORMED decision about buying into a
product owned by a person who behaves in this fashion.
Post by Tom Lake
It's a personal matter between you and Zale
It very obvious from the list of banned people and their testimonials
that this it NOT just between Mr Zale and me. Thats what I thought for
many years. I believed I had just committed some horrible faux pas
that I was unaware of. After a while realized that what you are
reading here is a constant and consitent barrage upon the powerbasic
user base.

While I realize this reporting is not going to win any popularity
contests, but this "inconvenient truth" needs to be told. No one wants
to deal with this, so someone had too. People are not stupid. They can
sniff out the truth if they want. The I have linked all the relevant
material. Read it and decide for yourself.
hutch--
2009-10-19 02:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Why does this topic sound like a sob story ? Easy I guess, its because
its a sob story. Many years ago I was registered in the PB forum as
"hutch" a handle I have had since birth and a year or so later Dave
Navarro closed my account for exactly the same reason that a few
people here are complaining about.

Did I sit up at night wringing my hands, losing sleep about it while
wiping the tear stains off my face ? Not really, I had to suffer the
sheer indignity of doing a little extra typing and actually re-
register but fortunately I have survived the experience and I am still
here 10 year later.

Now for all of those things I could find to argue with the PowerBASIC
vendor about, his policy in the way he runs his forum is not one of
them. The vast majority of members are decent people who are not
afraid of other knowing their real name and the policy has delivered a
forum that is still there 10 years down the track which is in itself a
remarkable achievement.

Now while I am at it, here is a quick list of things that I could
easily argue about with the PowerBASIC vendor.

(1) My taste in good pure malt is better than his.
(2) As an Australian citizen I will never be converted into a
REPUBLICRAT.
(3) I actually like and support Barack Obama where I detested that
IMBECILE before him. :)
(4) etc .....

What i DON'T have to argue with him about is the success story of both
his forum and his products.

Come on guys, give it a break, you could end up with a serious case of
RSI from manual self delusion.

Regards,

hutch
Basic Guy
2009-10-19 02:10:51 UTC
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Post by hutch--
Come on guys, give it a break,
Why are you responding to a dormant thread?

And who are you to decide what can and can't be posted here?

Get off your fucking high-horse.
hutch--
2009-10-19 02:18:59 UTC
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smile,
Post by Basic Guy
And who are you to decide what can and can't be posted here?
Someone who can type into a Usenet group the same way as you do.
Pssssst, I have been using and paying for PowerBASIC toys for about 13
or 14 years.
Post by Basic Guy
Get off your fucking high-horse.
If you hadn't fallen of yours you would not have the problem. Beware
of the RSI problem. :)
Basic Guy
2009-10-19 04:42:19 UTC
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I note that you didn't answer my first question.
Post by hutch--
Pssssst, I have been using and paying for PowerBASIC toys for
about 13 or 14 years.
Uh, ok. And that means - what exactly?
hutch--
2009-10-19 05:09:08 UTC
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smile,
Post by Basic Guy
I note that you didn't answer my first question.
Whoever said I had to, slow down on the manual self delusion and you
won't suffer the problem of trying to tell other people what to do.
Post by Basic Guy
Uh, ok. And that means - what exactly?
Well, after you have recovered from falling off your high horse it
will dawn on you that I have seen most of this stuff, know most of
these people and don't need some dipsh*t who thinks he is a big shot
on a clapped out Usenet group trying to sound like he actually knows
something.

I don't have to hide behind an anonymous nickname, perhaps you could
join the human race as well. Thats what the debate was about, people
skulking around the internet on fake names making a pest of
themselves. I well agree with the PowerBASIC vendor in keeping his
forum a sensible place because the alternative is a clapped out heap
of sh*t like Usenet full of d*ckheads like you.
Basic Guy
2009-10-19 13:50:51 UTC
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Post by hutch--
Post by Basic Guy
I note that you didn't answer my first question.
Whoever said I had to,
Obviously if answering it exposes your lapse in judgement, then
naturally you will not want to answer the question. Nice try though -
to portray it as a command to answer it.
Post by hutch--
slow down on the manual self delusion and you won't
suffer the problem of trying to tell other people what to do.
Where exactly did I command or demand that you to answer a question that
obviously you have no satisfactory answer for?

It's you that's suffering a delusion.
Post by hutch--
Post by Basic Guy
Post by hutch--
Pssssst, I have been using and paying for PowerBASIC toys
for about 13 or 14 years.
I had to add that because you are not quoting sufficient context with
your in-line replies.
Post by hutch--
Post by Basic Guy
Uh, ok. And that means - what exactly?
Well, after you have recovered from falling off your high
horse it will dawn on you that I have seen most of this
stuff, know most of these people and don't need some
And you are saying that we're not supposed to post or talk about things
here that *you* already know about?

What kind of asshole are you anyways?
Post by hutch--
I don't have to hide behind an anonymous nickname,
Oh really?

Then is "hutch--" your real, full name?

Or is it an anonymous nickname?

You really are a fucking idiot, aren't you? And you're a
google-grouper. The lamest of the lame. Do you know the reputation
that people have that post to usenet via google?
Post by hutch--
perhaps you could join the human race as well.
And now you're giving me commands? Now you're trying to tell me and
others what to do?
Post by hutch--
I well agree with the PowerBASIC vendor in keeping his
forum a sensible place because the alternative is a
clapped out heap of sh*t like Usenet full of d*ckheads
like you.
The only shit being heaped around here is coming from your mouth.

You're complaining about anonymous identities, yet you use one yourself,
you asswipe.

Is is just you and Rod Speed that are assholes, or is everyone else from
Australia too?
hutch--
2009-10-19 14:08:05 UTC
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Oooooooow,

You know how to use naughty words as well, how novel, doesn't that
give you a serious hard on ?

Now be a good little boy and go blow your nose.

Pssssst, you will have to let go of your DICK first.
Basic Guy
2009-10-19 14:27:33 UTC
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Post by hutch--
You know how to use naughty words as well, how novel, doesn't that
give you a serious hard on ?
So that's how you come back to defend your arguments?
Post by hutch--
Now be a good little boy and go blow your nose.
You've got a strange way of surrendering a discussion, but ok - I
accept.
hutch--
2009-10-19 15:21:28 UTC
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Muhahahaha,

I have alwas been fascinated with how easy it is to manipulate a
d*ckhead on Usenet. The topic was related to the PowerBASIC vendor
restricting access to people who used their real names. You have just
verified that policy by opening your mouth. The choice is simple for
programmers who want to use the vendors products and get decent
support in the process, they can hang around a clapped out heap of
sh*t like Usenet or they can join the vendors protected forum and
never have to listen to a d*ckhead like you again.

Now that you have managed to make a useful contribution at last, keep
up the good work, flap your mouth off, look up some more naughty
words, keep saying really stupid things and you will keep pointing
people to the vendors forum so they don't have to listen to the
dribble that comes out of you.
Basic Guy
2009-10-20 00:31:36 UTC
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Post by hutch--
I have alwas been fascinated with how easy it is to manipulate a
d*ckhead on Usenet.
That's probably because said manipulation isin't really happening - you
just think it is.
Post by hutch--
The topic was related to the PowerBASIC vendor restricting
access to people who used their real names.
What motivated you to address the issue - long after it had ceased being
discussed here?
Post by hutch--
You have just verified that policy by opening your mouth.
This is where your argument breaks down.

The thing is, I can come up with a legit-looking "real name" when
signing up for admission to the PB forums. The stipulation that I give
my real name is unenforceable. That simple fact, and it's consequences,
seems to have eluded you.
Post by hutch--
The choice is simple for programmers who want to use the vendors
products and get decent support in the process, they can hang
around a clapped out heap of sh*t like Usenet
And you are making a fine example of being a clapped-out heap of shit.
And yes, it's shit, not sh*t.
Post by hutch--
or they can join the vendors protected forum and never have
to listen to a d*ckhead like you again.
The censors (oops, I mean moderators) will remove posts on private
forums (and delete accounts) based on the content of the posts - not the
identity of the poster. Someone using their real name (or something
that at least looks like a real name) can just as easily post material
that the censor (oops, I mean moderator) will find objectionable.
Post by hutch--
Now that you have managed to make a useful contribution at last,
keep up the good work, flap your mouth off, look up some more
naughty words, keep saying really stupid things and you will
keep pointing people to the vendors forum so they don't have
to listen to the dribble that comes out of you.
At least you can post that paragraph here on usenet - where no one can
take it down. Try that on your precious PB forums.

If your PB censored forums are such hot-shit, then what are you doing
here - besides making an asshole out of yourself?
hutch--
2009-10-20 03:38:06 UTC
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Speed Rod (Hay Man, I can delude myself at a million strokes a
second).

Just keep up the good work, drive even more people to the registered
human named and populated PowerBASIC peer forum.

Now go on, jump up and down, have a tantrum, threaten to hold your
breath until the world does what you want. Look up some more naughty
words but be careful, mummy will paddle your tender little bottom if
you keep saying naughty things.
Basic Guy
2009-10-20 04:11:08 UTC
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Look up some more naughty words but be careful, mummy will paddle
your tender little bottom if you keep saying naughty things.
Are all Australians as whacked out as you?

Shouldn't you be doing something like either evacuating yourself, or go
and fight a fire somewhere?

Or are you one of arsonists setting your pathetic excuse for a country
on fire?
hutch--
2009-10-20 08:06:27 UTC
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Hey hey hey Speed Rod,

Just keep it up, the PowerBASIC vendor could not have obtained a
better result even if he had paid an actor. Go on, chuck a tantrum,
bleed at the ears, froth at the mouth, jump up and down a bit more
then sit sobbing in a corner after mummy paddles your poor tender
little bottom again.

Now don't worry about someone elses country on fire, if mummy keeps
paddling your bottom, you will have an arse on fire.
Basic Guy
2009-10-21 00:51:19 UTC
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Who is hutch?

Hutch is Steve Hutchesson, of Sydney Australia.

Steve is 61 years old. His birthdate is June 18, 1948.

You've got a real thing for the oriental ladies, don't you Steve?

I'm thinking this is where you live:

Hutchesson S L (02) 9331 2672
13 Chapman St, Surry Hills, NSW

Google streetview has a nice picture of your place:

http://tinyurl.com/yje4c42

Steve - it looks like a dive. Is that your mini-cooper out front?

If that's not you, then I guess you're one of these:

Hutchesson S (07) 4938 7519
7 Reef St, Zilzie QLD 4710, Australia
- I doubt that broad-band internet access is available at that address.

Hutchesson S (07) 4786 2884
3 Richmond Rd, Bowen QLD 4805
- still looks like a dive to me.

I doubt that one of these is you, because you're a loner and have no
significant other:

Hutchesson S F & L G (08) 8532 5504
44 Edmund Tce, Murray Bridge SA 5253

Hutchesson S T & J M (08) 8733 4360
Wattle Rd, Millicent SA 5280

I might develop this FAQ further, depending on how much interest there
is in it.
hutch--
2009-10-21 02:15:11 UTC
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Man,

You are doing well for a d*ckhead and not anly have you helped
PowerBASIC attract more people to its peer forum but you have ensured
that they will not hang around a sh*thole like this when its populated
by d*ckheads like yourself. Now its not as if I need the publicity but
then if it comes for nothing, why not. Its always fun to extract some
more effort out of a d*ckhead in a clapped out old Usenet group and it
will certainly drive even more people away.

Now that you have proven that you have an internet connection and can
manage to do a little searching here and there, come clean and tell us
why you are hiding your identity, what dirty little secrets do you
have up your sleeve that forces you to skulk around in the shadows of
the internet trying to look like a human being. What are you so afraid
about that you have to behave like some dirty little p0rn vendor or
dealer in nasty little boy pictures, are you afraid of getting caught
if someone finds out who you are.

Now come on before mummy find you are being a naughty little boy
again, jump up and down, throw a tantrum, start sprouting some more
naughty words and if you are lucky and fast enough mummy will not
catch you and tan your arse again.
I might develop this FAQ further, depending on how much interest there is in it.
You do that, its helps me find a few more of the family to help out
the old fellas. You are becoming amazingly useful for a dimwit with
his mouth in gear, brain in neutral and his dick in hand, keep up the
good work. :)
Happy Trails
2009-10-21 03:17:28 UTC
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Post by Basic Guy
I might develop this FAQ further, depending on how much interest there
is in it.
Please don't - nobody really gives a shit!
hutch--
2009-10-21 02:26:25 UTC
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Hi Happy Trails,

Glad to see there is someone making sense in here.
hutch--
2009-10-21 03:41:31 UTC
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こんにちはとんちき。
釈放陽物から手。
ご注意母親スマックお尻お宅非常にがっしり。
Basic Guy
2009-10-21 04:42:05 UTC
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Ok, now that we've established that Steve Leslie Hutchesson lives here:

13 chapman street
surry hills, new south wales 2010
Phone: 02 93312672
http://tinyurl.com/yje4c42

In case you need to contact him, try this e-mail address:

***@masmforum.com

Steve, you really do rub some people the wrong way. Let's look at this
example:

--------------

http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/

This page mainly serves to warn people of the treatment they can except
from Stephen Leslie Hutchesson, a.k.a. hutch--, for as little as merely
disagreeing with his point-of-view.

Below are links to threads, posts and even declassified moderation
material involving or highlighting Steve "hutch--" Hutchesson and his
abusive actions toward members of the former Win32ASM Community, now ASM
Community, along with his disrepect of fellow moderators at the time.
Feel free to read, but please form your own opinion by investigating
sources outside of these... namely search the UseNET group alt.lang.asm
and Steve's own forum at http://www.masm32.com/ for further evidence on
the continuation in this pattern of misconduct.

• WA: jeezes hutch, cut it out - An early example of how Steve exhibits
the logical fallacy called "Special Pleading" and his desires to create
an anti-American / pro-Australian medium.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030419043536.html

• allow members to delete their own threads in WA? - Steve attacks a
fellow moderator by applying the typical logical fallacy called "Ad
Hominem".
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030419051201.html

• Does the world want Bush's Republican New World Order - An example of
how Steve enjoys drawing people into flame-wars. The original poll had
two choices, "YES, we all want to grovel to Bush's superior culture" and
"NO, they can shove it up their arse".
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030419212041.html

• Who deleted the poll I started in WA ? - Illustrates Steve's animosity
towards Americans, or anyone who simply doesn't agree with him for that
matter, with a little hint of a logical fallacy called "Biased Sample".
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030420060435.html

• My most recent email of support for defending against abuse. - Example
of Steve attempting force the moderation team to swallow his rhetoric.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030420090605.html

• closing WA - In recent light of Steve's inability to control the WA
(Worldy Affairs) forum, he joins the bandwagon in getting rid of it
(again).
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030420172213.html

• Apply the axe to WA now ! - Steve becomes impatient with his recent
agreement to disban the WA (Worldy Affairs) forum and tries to press the
issue further.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030422223121.html

• what's going on here, hutch? - An attempt by the moderation team to
intervene on Steve's abuse problems, with a good touch of how Steve's
ego and head have become inflated due to the popularity of MASM32.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030424074935.html

• What's going on here Harold ? - Steve attempts to pull a classical
logical fallacy called a "Red Herring" where Steve blames the rest of
the moderation team to take the focus off of his abusive actions.
Thankfully, the "Red Herring" is quickly curtailed and the original
problem of Steve's abuse is further discussed.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030424213414.html

• Notification to team members. - Steve loses his cool with his ego
taking over completely and outright blames the rest of the moderation
team for the (then) current state of the forums instead addressing his
own personal issues. Perhaps a positive indication of elderly
senility... but insulting and uncalled for, none-the-less.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030427220137.html

• Policy change on illegal postings - More highlights of Steve using his
moderation status as leverage for executing his peronal agendas.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030429014219.html

• What's happened, has atrophy set in ? - More blatent insults toward
the moderation team on behalf of Steve, including remarks against non
native-English speakers. Arrogance++??? Also included is a bit of
information as to the true origins of Steve's animosity toward f0dder.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030430215629.html

• Forum exit link for masm32 site - Steve's abrupt exit strategy, yet he
still manages to blame someone else in the process.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030503034457.html

• I have proposed the following 2 solutions to hutch - Light discussion
about Steve and how MASM32 will be supported after his leaving.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030503130359.html

• Hutch vs. f0dder - Steve's attempt at "remote control" of the
community he left.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20040328133832.html

• Great hutch vs f0dder war - A public example of the animosity between
Steve and f0dder.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20050505033548.html

• masm(forum) dot com - An intersting read about Steve.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20060328191710.html

• Steve (Hutch)esson - At one time, a statement to ASM Community about
Steve and where I stand in regard to his actions.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20060331023335.html

• Behind the Scenes: ASM Community - A lengthy summary of the events and
actions that lead Steve to leave this community. Recommended reading if
you have the time.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20060616074300.html
hutch--
2009-10-21 05:11:19 UTC
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BIG smile,

Now we KNOW you really have something to hide, you even changed the
topic to try and cover your arse. Now come on, come clean, what are
your motives for hiding behind a bullsh*t name like "Basic Girl"
whoops I mean "Goy" ? What is your dirty little perversion, dirty
pictures, little boys, credit card fraud, you are too DUMMMMM to know
anything useful to sell to the TERRORISTS but HAY you may be stupid
enough to try.

Now don't think I waste the time on a d*ckhead like you for no return,
so far you have done everything necessary to drive people into a safe
sensible peer group forum and you have just become my publicity agent
at no cost. Now all you need to do is let go of your DICK, pull your
pants back up so that when mummy paddles your poor tenderised little
bottom that it does not hurt as much.

Now don't forget to jump up and down, hold your breath until the world
loves you, throw a few tantrums, say more naughty things and drive
even more people away, they just don't have to listen to a d*ckhead
like you when they join the PowerBASIC peer group forum.
hutch--
2009-11-08 23:23:44 UTC
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Hey Goy Boy, why are you so afraid to post under your own name and
have to use a bullsh*t FAKE ID ?

Will you tell us where you STOLE your copy of PB3.5 ?

Why are you posting links to pirated software in alt.lang.powerbasic ?
MikeTrader
2009-12-02 10:12:25 UTC
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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/bad0c719b82a13a8#
hutch--
2009-12-03 01:13:18 UTC
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Poor little Goy Boy, needs his buddies to cover his arse for using
STOLEN SOFTWARE.
Auric__
2009-12-03 22:20:46 UTC
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Post by hutch--
Poor little Goy Boy, needs his buddies to cover his arse for using
STOLEN SOFTWARE.
Hutch, why do you even bother? Is it really worth it? Dude wants to badmouth
PBInc, let him. [shrug]
--
Open your eyes! Open your eyes!
Wayne Diamond
2009-10-29 00:52:11 UTC
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Post by hutch--
Pssssst, I have been using and paying for PowerBASIC toys for about 13
or 14 years.
You've had a good run Steve! was only 9 years before I got shafted.
Basic Guy
2009-09-13 02:30:00 UTC
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Post by MikeTrader
On January 29, 2008, someone on the Powerbasic forum asked when
Powerbasic for Linux would be released. I replied to his
question by stating something to the effect that "Powerbasic
for Linux has been 'coming real soon now' for over ten
years, but unfortunately it hasn't ever been released."
Besides responding to your remark and eventually banning you, did anyone
at PB ever respond to the original question?
Post by MikeTrader
While not nearly as active as the Powerbasic web forum, some people
who are interested in Powerbasic do follow that newsgroup.
Is there ever any feedback into the PB-hosted forums about the
conversations that go on here in these newsgroups?

Does anyone ever post comments in the PB forums that anyone that wants
to have an uncensored and un-delete-able conversation or debate can do
so here in these newsgroups?
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