BASIC for OS X / Linux...

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Scott Wyatt

2005-05-25 21:20:13 UTC

I wondering that since YABASIC is open source, would it be possible to
update the FLEX/BISON code to closely approximate PB/CC on Linux or
(better yet) OS X?

I downloaded the Unix source code and purchased a book on lexx/yacc, but
I'm pretty sure this is not something for the faint of heart. I'm not
pleased with REALbasic and would love to run my existing DOS/Console
applications on my Mac and Linux boxes.

Since PowerBASIC isn't showing much interest in cross-platform tools,
year after year passes and I'm still stuck with only a couple of serious
options on the Mac. (There are at least four commercial BASICs and a
handful of free interpreters, but nothing great.)

Anyone here familiar enough with compiler tools to consider a go with an
open source BASIC? Heck, if I had a few million, I'd pay to get a
version of PowerBASIC or HBasic on the Mac. * sigh * You can only do so
much with REALbasic or FutureBASIC before you realize they are slow,
slow, slow when compared to other compilers. (RB is decent, but its
speed with strings and GUI elements is really sad.)

Now, the real dream would be BlitzMax or PowerBASIC shipping a BASIC
that had a complete GUI toolkit for Mac or Linux, maybe based on QT or
wxWidgets. The Blitz users are working on such things, so maybe...

- CSW

unknown

2005-05-25 22:33:56 UTC

Permalink

Post by Scott Wyatt
I wondering that since YABASIC is open source, would it be possible to
update the FLEX/BISON code to closely approximate PB/CC on Linux or
(better yet) OS X?
I downloaded the Unix source code and purchased a book on lexx/yacc, but
I'm pretty sure this is not something for the faint of heart. I'm not
pleased with REALbasic and would love to run my existing DOS/Console
applications on my Mac and Linux boxes.
Since PowerBASIC isn't showing much interest in cross-platform tools,
year after year passes and I'm still stuck with only a couple of serious
options on the Mac. (There are at least four commercial BASICs and a
handful of free interpreters, but nothing great.)
Anyone here familiar enough with compiler tools to consider a go with an
open source BASIC? Heck, if I had a few million, I'd pay to get a
version of PowerBASIC or HBasic on the Mac. * sigh * You can only do so
much with REALbasic or FutureBASIC before you realize they are slow,
slow, slow when compared to other compilers. (RB is decent, but its
speed with strings and GUI elements is really sad.)
Now, the real dream would be BlitzMax or PowerBASIC shipping a BASIC
that had a complete GUI toolkit for Mac or Linux, maybe based on QT or
wxWidgets. The Blitz users are working on such things, so maybe...

Remember "as easy as"? It was a Lotus 123 clone.

It would be quite possible to make an open source BASIC for linux
that was compatible with PowerBASIC (compiles any source code that
PB compiles, executable does the same thing as a PB executable).

It would be a lot of work, but whoever wrote the code would be able
to get high-paying jobs forever.

Auric__

2005-05-26 15:56:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by Scott Wyatt
I wondering that since YABASIC is open source, would it be possible to
update the FLEX/BISON code to closely approximate PB/CC on Linux or
(better yet) OS X?

You may want to look in glbcc (GNU Liberty BASIC Compiler Collection):
http://lbpp.sourceforge.net/

It uses Liberty BASIC, and instead of compiling directly, it translates
to gcc-flavored C. I don't think it would be terribly difficult to
transmogrify this to play nice with PB sources and other C compilers.

There's also a few other BASIC-to-C translators; I use BCX, BPP, and
qb2c. You could use one of them to translate your programs to C, then
move the generated C sources to your *nix boxen and compile with gcc.

You might also want to look into Kbasic:
http://www.kbasic.de/

It's not *quite* ready yet - the site says the final "preview" (meaning
pre-alpha) should be available "late May 2005". There's already support
for Windows & Linux, and planned support for MacOS. I think it looks
promising.

There's also freeBASIC:
http://www.freebasic.net/

I haven't tried it yet, but it supports Windows, DOS, & Linux.

And wxBasic:
http://wxbasic.sourceforge.net/

I tried this about 4 years ago but didn't like it. It uses the wxWidgets
(formerly wxWindows) framework.

And Gambas:
http://gambas.sourceforge.net/

It works on FreeBSD and most varieties of Linux, with attempts to get it
working in OSX, NetBSD, Solaris, and Windows.

Post by Scott Wyatt
I downloaded the Unix source code and purchased a book on lexx/yacc, but
I'm pretty sure this is not something for the faint of heart.

It's not.

Post by Scott Wyatt
Anyone here familiar enough with compiler tools to consider a go with an
open source BASIC?

Consider it, yes. Actually do it, no - I've got other stuff to worry
about first.

Post by Scott Wyatt
Now, the real dream would be BlitzMax or PowerBASIC shipping a BASIC
that had a complete GUI toolkit for Mac or Linux, maybe based on QT or
wxWidgets. The Blitz users are working on such things, so maybe...

From the BlitzMax website:
http://www.blitzmax.com/Products/blitzmax.php
BlitzMax has been designed from the ground up for multiplatform
support, and BlitzMax programs can be compiled for MacOS X, Windows
and Linux PC's. The BlitzMax license is 'all in one' - buy BlitzMax
once and run your programs on all 3 platforms!

If PB released full x86 *nix support - say, just Linux and *BSD - I'd be
willing to pay for it again, rather than having to learn yet another
dialect of BASIC. (I have to deal with 4 just for my current projects,
along with C and some assembler. Yuck.)

--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just stare
at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*".
-- Linus Torvalds

Scott Wyatt

2005-05-26 19:29:54 UTC

Permalink

Post by Auric__
There's also a few other BASIC-to-C translators; I use BCX, BPP, and
qb2c. You could use one of them to translate your programs to C, then
move the generated C sources to your *nix boxen and compile with gcc.

I'm not interested in the translators. I've tried them and they just
don't do well on OS X. I'm sure there are reasons, but they seem
partial, at best. At that point, REALbasic remains the best option,
since it has an OK IDE/RAD interface.

Post by Auric__
http://www.kbasic.de/

Now this looks promising. I hope they get the OS X port ready for beta
in the next year or two.

Post by Auric__
http://gambas.sourceforge.net/

I keep watching Gambas, dreaming that it or HBasic will port to OS X.
Part of the challenge with OS X is the Mac GUI. FreePascal, which would
be my tool of choice, uses X11, which isn't where I want to be. Users of
OS X are not Unix-aware.

Post by Auric__
http://www.blitzmax.com/Products/blitzmax.php

The iGlass GUI kit is starting to look promising. The issues with Blitz
are limited -- it is getting very close to usable for development. The
SQL libraries are what would seal the deal for me. I need database
access, especially now that OS X uses SQLite as a native file format.

Post by Auric__
If PB released full x86 *nix support - say, just Linux and *BSD - I'd be
willing to pay for it again, rather than having to learn yet another
dialect of BASIC. (I have to deal with 4 just for my current projects,
along with C and some assembler. Yuck.)

Since I'm not on any x86 boxes, I'm in a different situation. I can run
DOS emulation or VirtualPC, which I do now for PowerBASIC, but I want
something native to the PowerPC architecture.

At least people keep trying. I know Liberty has a beta for OS X, but it
suffers from speed issues. REALbasic remains the "leader" on OS X and
Linux, as far as I can tell.

One thing about REALbasic, if you need x86/Linux/OS X, it is
cross-platform and decent. It just isn't "wow" great until you pay money
for various plug-ins to add features.

- CSW

Auric__

2005-05-27 04:22:52 UTC

Permalink

Post by Scott Wyatt

Eh. The newest version of MacOS I can get running is 7.6.1; my only OS8
CD is for the iMac, which I don't have. (I use an old 7300.) Not only
can I not run apps written with RB5, I can't even find a working version
of gcc! (Still looking, though.) I have to content myself with MPW.

Post by Scott Wyatt

Post by Auric__
http://www.kbasic.de/

Now this looks promising. I hope they get the OS X port ready for beta
in the next year or two.

I think that a Mac version is what he's currently working on.

Post by Scott Wyatt

Post by Auric__
http://gambas.sourceforge.net/

OSX doesn't have an X server?

Post by Scott Wyatt

Post by Auric__
http://www.blitzmax.com/Products/blitzmax.php

Never heard of iGlass; don't know much about OSX or Blitz.

Post by Scott Wyatt

What about Chipmunk Basic? It's an interpreter rather than a compiler,
but it *works*.

Post by Scott Wyatt
One thing about REALbasic, if you need x86/Linux/OS X, it is
cross-platform and decent. It just isn't "wow" great until you pay money
for various plug-ins to add features.

It works for what I need it for: crossplatform support, nothing fancy. I
hardly even need filesystem access for most of my stuff.

Have you given any thought into using TrueBasic? It's not currently an
OSX app, but they say (and have been saying for some time, actually)
that a native OSX version of TB "will be available in the future".

--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
Here are some helpful hints just in case you may want to send me a
virus:
1. Don't threaten me repeatedly before you send the virus.
2. Don't attach the virus to a message that says "SUCK THIS, BITCH".
3. Don't name it virus.exe.

Scott Wyatt

2005-05-27 05:55:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by Auric__
OSX doesn't have an X server?

I use X11... I don't think my clients would. Mac users don't want to be
hassled with technical things like installing X11. I use it because GIMP
and StarOffice are X11 on the Mac.

You know clients are picky. Very picky.

I've been using RB5.5, but it is very slow with string functions. We had
to optimize a lot to get the speed to an acceptable level on a few
thousand records.

By comparison, PowerBASIC is pure speed. I miss that.

- CSW

Auric__

2005-05-27 07:00:58 UTC

Permalink

Post by Scott Wyatt

Post by Auric__
OSX doesn't have an X server?

I use X11... I don't think my clients would. Mac users don't want to be
hassled with technical things like installing X11. I use it because GIMP
and StarOffice are X11 on the Mac.

Sounds a bit like QNX - has an optional X server.

Post by Scott Wyatt
You know clients are picky. Very picky.

I would assume so, but everything I've ever been paid to write -
EVERYTHING - was for internal use only.

Post by Scott Wyatt
I've been using RB5.5, but it is very slow with string functions. We had
to optimize a lot to get the speed to an acceptable level on a few
thousand records.
By comparison, PowerBASIC is pure speed. I miss that.

PB spoils us for everything else. DAMN YOU POWERBASIC FOR GETTING ME
USED TO HIGH EFFICIENCY IN A LOW-EFFICIENCY WORLD! <g>

--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
That is a task that takes the patience of a saint and a good hardwood bat.

Scott Wyatt

2005-06-02 20:26:23 UTC

Permalink

Win32 API Programming with Visual Basic
Steve Roman
O'Reilly & Associates, Paperback, Bk&CD edition, Published November
1999, 511 pages, ISBN 1565926315

There used to be a book by Chris Jamsa and one by Charles Petzold (sp?).
Sorry if I mangled Charles' last name, but he used to write for PC
Magazine and PC World, so you can locate his books pretty quickly on
Amazon by searching for Windows API programming.

- Scott